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Hoppy said:
Dameon said:
Sorry to say, but this bow is way out of tune. I've talked to Hardcore, and if he is your definition of a pro-tuner, then John and Scottie must be apostles of Archery. Nock travel should be near zero in the vertical plane as evidenced by laser tuning by Kevin himself. Bump at end of draw is indicative of mis-timing in the draw stops. Hardcore has this bow so out of tune, I am guessing that it would take at least 3-4 full twists in the yoke and 1-2 untwists in the buss cable to get the cams back to where they need to be for level nock travel. Drawstops and let-off will of course have to be fully reset on a drawboard. IMO, quality strings do not allow for this kind of settling, someone would have had to seriously muck things up for a bow to get this bad.

Oldbuck, no offense to you, but if you are going to do tests on bows, please verify that they are in tune. This one is not. I know you know that the TT can't even work on this bow, so I see no advantage to you in testing this bow besides yours and ours curiousity, but someone has definitely wanted to see this bow fail.
I just committed to buy this bow from Hardcore, Looks like I will have some fun tuning :cool:

Hey bro I hope you get tons of enjoyment shooting it over the years. I hope you bought it to keep it not make money off it. My misfortune I hope will be your gain. I really hope you do well with this bow and i'll make sure it get's shipped to you pronto as soon as the check is in my brothers hands,,,,your not buying it off Hardcore,,,its really from me and he is doing me the favor.

As for this bow being as it is said here "way out of tune" ??? I have to doubt that,,,but it might be possible if this bow tunes much different then other hybrid cam bows. This guy knows how to tune a bow and set and slave up a hybrid,,,,he is after all even a Hoyt shooter. I can honestly say no one "wanted this bow to fail",,,,better not with all the money I spent !!! I know the tuner since he was a kid and watched him grow up in a archery pro shop tuning bows and into a top notch shooter too. I DO have alot of trust in him,,,I place my faith in Jesus not in men,,,but I trust this kid with any of my bows anytime of the day,,,and never been burned with atleast 15 bows he's done for me,,,timing,tuning,and restringing over the years.

So you guys can stop the sabotage or agenda stuff. I wanted this bow and bought alot of top notch things to accentuate the blue and black of this bow that I cannot use on any other of my bows.
 

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2011 K&K Vengance bow test results

Just to clear things up 2xr and Scottie/PA are two completely different people. From my understanding 2xr is a bow addict who supports Scottie by keeping his business info in his sig.
 

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AJB - in all fairness what was your thinking for sending Oldbuck your bow for nock travel? Before sending the bow his way you knew it wasn't tuning right so how could you expect to get a legit test on that bow? With him being the creator of tilt tamer he will obviously have a bias with the test and obviously would help tune the bow to make the results any better. It's just interesting that your bow is the only one who made it to him for testing and it's probably the worst tuned vengeance out there. Also with previous posts of oldbucks and Ltrains you couldn't have thought the bow would get s fair chance.
 

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One glaring thing that stood out in AJB's diatribe was that the guy he sent the bow to (HardcoreArchery) had a hand in a Strother dealership.

That says a ton. Helps me make sense of many of his posts and why he has an OBVIOUS agenda.

AJB, you seem like a nice guy, but why send an obvious out of tune bow to be tested?
 

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Sent a bow that was already listed for sale to be tested, or at a minimum let this tuner (wasn't going to post about the fact that HA has ties to SA - but glad someone did), send it out for a test while it's listed for sale. AJB you may in fact be innocent in all this aside from picking someone to work on a bow he has never worked on before.

I know if I sent my bow to Scottie for a tune up and found he was sending it out for extra curricular activities without me knowing about it, Scottie wouldn't be my dealer any longer. Secondly, if he couldn't tune it because it was the first time he had touched that brand and model, Scottie is professional enough to make some calls and find someone who knows something about the bow. Say an authorized dealer of said brand, and educate himself about said bow and it's tuning characteristics. Or, he would get on a forum like this and read posts by the designer about how to tune and setup said bow, not send it out for a test because of a personal agenda (advance SA agenda and reputation at K&K expense), to a tester with a personal agenda (sell his product).

But maybe I expect too much...
 

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-2xR- said:
Sent a bow that was already listed for sale to be tested, or at a minimum let this tuner (wasn't going to post about the fact that HA has ties to SA - but glad someone did), send it out for a test while it's listed for sale. AJB you may in fact be innocent in all this aside from picking someone to work on a bow he has never worked on before.

I know if I sent my bow to Scottie for a tune up and found he was sending it out for extra curricular activities without me knowing about it, Scottie wouldn't be my dealer any longer. Secondly, if he couldn't tune it because it was the first time he had touched that brand and model, Scottie is professional enough to make some calls and find someone who knows something about the bow. Say an authorized dealer of said brand, and educate himself about said bow and it's tuning characteristics. Or, he would get on a forum like this and read posts by the designer about how to tune and setup said bow, not send it out for a test because of a personal agenda (advance SA agenda and reputation at K&K expense), to a tester with a personal agenda (sell his product).

But maybe I expect too much...

:?: all this info on here about that travel word ,and pics ,the man is talented with designing this machine for testing ,but i don't think any of it matters too much to your average hunter they just want good broadhead flight .the vengeance has awsome broadhead flight and good groups..........why does anything else matter......
sometimes i think people think too much .who are we to try and understand any cam design ,im sure theres a reason for everything about kevins design ,he's not going to elaberate and give his secrets away ..........all i know is it shoots awsome ........ :oops:
 

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JayB22 said:
AJB - in all fairness what was your thinking for sending Oldbuck your bow for nock travel? Before sending the bow his way you knew it wasn't tuning right so how could you expect to get a legit test on that bow? With him being the creator of tilt tamer he will obviously have a bias with the test and obviously would help tune the bow to make the results any better. It's just interesting that your bow is the only one who made it to him for testing and it's probably the worst tuned vengeance out there. Also with previous posts of oldbucks and Ltrains you couldn't have thought the bow would get s fair chance.

i do not know who old buck is,,,and I never sent my bow to him. My bow was sent to a long time friend of mine who has set up a ton of bows for me over the years.

His deal with the strother bow line was a positive one and he encouraged me in saying he liked their bows.

I do now see it was not Scottie who was doing the oscar thing,,,so i want to apologize. The type set and black background on this page are tough on my old eyes....

Yea my guy never worked on a "K" bow,,,,but who the heck has ??? Mine was bow #64,,,and frankly I was one of the very first to send my deposit in. the thing i remember was that Strother had a hybrid cam too so I figured there would be some familiarity and some "newness".

i still stand by my guy as a stand up bow tuner with anyone out there anywhere. I seen the kid's work over the years and he loves the work and is super clean and dilligent as well as having learned and shot with some of the best there is. The "tuner" is a keeper,,,and in no way would i ever give up on him,,,,even if there was something he missed,,,,we are all human and anyone can slip up.

Trust me there is no agenda besides my own agenda,,,,"get this bow ready for me to shoot when I get off the plane next month and tell me how much money you need for the assecories",,,,quote unquote. Thats how the conversation went. He agreed,,,,i sent money to buy color coodinated QAD LDHD rest,Sight,Doinker,and a blue and black braid sling ,dozen carbon express blue streak seletc arrows etc.

I'm a bit disappointed cause I really wanted to whack a turkey with this bow and take it home to be my new hog hunting bow. Maybe next year i'll try one again. But for now,,,,someone else is getting a good deal on a new bow.
 

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-2xR- said:
Sent a bow that was already listed for sale to be tested, or at a minimum let this tuner (wasn't going to post about the fact that HA has ties to SA - but glad someone did), send it out for a test while it's listed for sale. AJB you may in fact be innocent in all this aside from picking someone to work on a bow he has never worked on before.

I know if I sent my bow to Scottie for a tune up and found he was sending it out for extra curricular activities without me knowing about it, Scottie wouldn't be my dealer any longer. Secondly, if he couldn't tune it because it was the first time he had touched that brand and model, Scottie is professional enough to make some calls and find someone who knows something about the bow. Say an authorized dealer of said brand, and educate himself about said bow and it's tuning characteristics. Or, he would get on a forum like this and read posts by the designer about how to tune and setup said bow, not send it out for a test because of a personal agenda (advance SA agenda and reputation at K&K expense), to a tester with a personal agenda (sell his product).

But maybe I expect too much...
Ok I wasn't even gonna register to this site but I have to set a few things straight. First I am in Jo way affiliated with Strother Archery, I did sell them for a brief time but I stopped selling them long before they had a falling out with Kevin. Second I have tuned a number of Strother bows and the cam system on the strother and the K&K is virtually identical. Third this bow was tested the exact same way it was received from Kevin himself. Everything was set to factory spec and the cams were in the location that Kevin suggests they sit. Before this bow was sent to be tested I had a few conversations with Kevin and tried everything he said to get the high tear out of the bow with no success. The ONLY thing that I did not do was try to tune it with a very stiff arrow because this was not an option as stated by john blaze. I by no means sabotage anything and I had absolutely NO opinion on this bow when I received it.

This is not the only K bow with this problem there are a bunch out three with the same and I can bet a lot more will pop up as more ship. I can tell you that the problem with the nock travel is that the cams are not synced. This is a hybrid not a binary they are two totally different cam systems. Kevin has had no experience what so ever with a hybrid until last year and hr had the same problems then that he had now. If he was able to build a binary without being sued I can guarantee he would. There are way the fix the nock travel issue on the K bow 1 is to take twists out of the control cable and the other is to shorten up the bottem mod 1/2 inch. If you put his bow on a draw board you will see that the string leaves the bottem cam before the top moves and this is how it comes from Kevin. I have seen some people say that the cams are not in the proper factory position and that's why it tested the way it does. Well if the stops are in the exact location that Kevin states they should be and they both hit the limbs at the same time then the cams are in the proper location.

Lastly I am done arguing this point because the guys that don't want to listen never will. You fita just go on shooting your K&K bows and I hope you enjoy doing so. In the end the bow was tested just like many others have been and the results don't lie. I am perfectly content and confident with my abilities to shoot and tune compound bows.
 

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AJB, I have no doubt that you have no agenda but to enjoy a top notch bow.

HardcoreArchery on the other hand has made his dislike for KS obvious. Go back and re-read his posts on the "other" thread.

Good luck and good shooting.
 

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-2xR- said:
Sent a bow that was already listed for sale to be tested, or at a minimum let this tuner (wasn't going to post about the fact that HA has ties to SA - but glad someone did), send it out for a test while it's listed for sale. AJB you may in fact be innocent in all this aside from picking someone to work on a bow he has never worked on before.

I know if I sent my bow to Scottie for a tune up and found he was sending it out for extra curricular activities without me knowing about it, Scottie wouldn't be my dealer any longer. Secondly, if he couldn't tune it because it was the first time he had touched that brand and model, Scottie is professional enough to make some calls and find someone who knows something about the bow. Say an authorized dealer of said brand, and educate himself about said bow and it's tuning characteristics. Or, he would get on a forum like this and read posts by the designer about how to tune and setup said bow, not send it out for a test because of a personal agenda (advance SA agenda and reputation at K&K expense), to a tester with a personal agenda (sell his product).

But maybe I expect too much...

i see your a trouble maker son. No when the bow was sent to the guy who did the nock travel test,,,,the bow was NOT for sale.

Stop popping off at the mouth in trying to make people look like a liar with a conspiracy theory. It's almost like you are trying to protect or hide something. My guy was having a hard time getting the bow to paper tune with several different arrows.

He came to the conclusion or surmised the bow had a nock travel issue because a stiff arrow masks up nock travel issues on paper tuning.....and yes I ask for all my bows to be paper tuned because I not only want my arrows to hit where I look with tight groups,,,I want a tightly spun arrow in order to get full energy on impact and better penetration then a wobbly arrow.

the following day apparently old buck did his test.

As for me getting pissed at him,,,listen,,,i know this guy since he was a kid. If he took the bow and wrapped it around a pole,,,i wouldn't say a word,,,big deal.

The bow was NOT for sale. The bow was in an attempt to be finished with a "normal" close to IBO arrow. When it was determined this was not possible,,,I pained over putting it up for sale. This nock test was done before I put the bow up for sale,,,or before my brother put it up for sale on AT.

Frankly I don't have a horse in the nock travel deal,,,,I'm a car dealer not a bow engineer. I draw my bow back and drill the center out as best I can of whatever i'm hunting. I don't shoot foam or shoot paper,,,I hunt to relax from a stressful business i'm in.

My guy i have to believe in,,,why ??? I know him for 15 years,,,and he's done me some slam up set ups over these years that I've piled up tons of meat with. I got no complaints with him,never have.

Looking back I might have been better off buying the bow thru a "K" bow dealer,,,and not getting a 70 pounder but a 60 pounder in my thinking that a 60 wouldn't need such an extreme 300 arrow.

I really do believe the buyer of this bow will enjoy it and this bow is not a reject,,,cause if it was I would have sent it back.

I DID contemplate sending it back to have Kevin paper tune it. Actually I DID PAY to have it paper tuned by him,,,,but with the great communications that happens,,,i was not given notice enough to send a rest and arrows nor was given an address to send them to. I offered to pay Kevin to put a QAD rest on and he said there were no shops nearby,,,and frankly he was smoking with work. So i said send the bow to Connecticut after I talked to my boy there to set it up. So i'm probably due a paper tune fee refund come to think of it.

I really do want to keep this bow,,,I really had bought some sharp black with blue highlites accesories including the arrows.

There is no agenda with strother or K and K. I almost bought a S71 today come to think of it. Loved the grip on it.

Stop the accusations and conspiracy stuff,,,you're way off base and you look like a trouble maker in doing so.

Peace
 

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TEXAS 10PT said:
[quote="L-Train":cfd510is]...interesting...
Very interesting. I looked at this thread today at work and could have sworn it was 8 pages and now its down to 3 :p

TEXAS[/quote:cfd510is]

There is another nock travel thread that is 8 or 9 pages long in the bow section. This one hasn't been touched.
 

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IrkedCitizen said:
TEXAS 10PT said:
[quote="L-Train":zx1407ts]...interesting...
Very interesting. I looked at this thread today at work and could have sworn it was 8 pages and now its down to 3 :p

TEXAS
There is another nock travel thread that is 8 or 9 pages long in the bow section. This one hasn't been touched.[/quote:zx1407ts]
I think the spot hogg info quieted that one down too, or maybe they are still trying to comprehend. :smile:
 

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L-Train said:
IrkedCitizen said:
[quote="TEXAS 10PT":1k8p2xa5][quote="L-Train":1k8p2xa5]...interesting...
Very interesting. I looked at this thread today at work and could have sworn it was 8 pages and now its down to 3 :p

TEXAS
There is another nock travel thread that is 8 or 9 pages long in the bow section. This one hasn't been touched.[/quote:1k8p2xa5]
I think the spot hogg info quieted that one down too, or maybe they are still trying to comprehend. :smile:[/quote:1k8p2xa5]

Or maybe it isn't as relevant as you would like us to believe, or not believe. Which is it today? I just picked up a Shimano - Thunnus CI4 Saltwater Spinning Reel for a great deal and can break it out tonight if need be...
 

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-2xR- said:
[quote="L-Train":snhdk39k]
IrkedCitizen said:
[quote="TEXAS 10PT":snhdk39k][quote="L-Train":snhdk39k]...interesting...
Very interesting. I looked at this thread today at work and could have sworn it was 8 pages and now its down to 3 :p

TEXAS
There is another nock travel thread that is 8 or 9 pages long in the bow section. This one hasn't been touched.[/quote:snhdk39k]
I think the spot hogg info quieted that one down too, or maybe they are still trying to comprehend. :smile:[/quote:snhdk39k]

Or maybe it isn't as relevant as you would like us to believe, or not believe. Which is it today? I just picked up a Shimano - Thunnus CI4 Saltwater Spinning Reel for a great deal and can break it out tonight if need be...[/quote:snhdk39k]
I prefer that model in a bait caster. Mike, are you going to use live or artificial baits tonight?
 

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CdBurner said:
-2xR- said:
L-Train":2n2dnkwj][quote=IrkedCitizen][quote="TEXAS 10PT":2n2dnkwj][quote="L-Train said:
...interesting...
Very interesting. I looked at this thread today at work and could have sworn it was 8 pages and now its down to 3 :p

TEXAS
There is another nock travel thread that is 8 or 9 pages long in the bow section. This one hasn't been touched.
I think the spot hogg info quieted that one down too, or maybe they are still trying to comprehend. :smile:[/quote:2n2dnkwj]

Or maybe it isn't as relevant as you would like us to believe, or not believe. Which is it today? I just picked up a Shimano - Thunnus CI4 Saltwater Spinning Reel for a great deal and can break it out tonight if need be...[/quote:2n2dnkwj]
I prefer that model in a bait caster. Mike, are you going to use live or artificial baits tonight?[/quote]

It is going to be partly cloudy tonight so I will be going artificial Chris. You?
 

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. Zoom Trick Worm or Finesse Worm Texas with/without weight. Drop Shot them, Carolina Rig them, Wacky Rig them. I like Green Pumpkin with Blue Flake Trick Worms, Black, and Watermelon Red Finesse Worms. Pumpkin Seed is a good optionin either size as well.

Throwing it all out there tonight, I am!
 

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Sorry to say, but this bow is way out of tune. I've talked to Hardcore, and if he is your definition of a pro-tuner, then John and Scottie must be apostles of Archery. Nock travel should be near zero in the vertical plane as evidenced by laser tuning by Kevin himself. Bump at end of draw is indicative of mis-timing in the draw stops. Hardcore has this bow so out of tune, I am guessing that it would take at least 3-4 full twists in the yoke and 1-2 untwists in the buss cable to get the cams back to where they need to be for level nock travel. Drawstops and let-off will of course have to be fully reset on a drawboard. IMO, quality strings do not allow for this kind of settling, someone would have had to seriously muck things up for a bow to get this bad.

Oldbuck, no offense to you, but if you are going to do tests on bows, please verify that they are in tune. This one is not. I know you know that the TT can't even work on this bow, so I see no advantage to you in testing this bow besides yours and ours curiousity, but someone has definitely wanted to see this bow fail.

LOL,,,,you are a complete fool and got sold a bill of goods. I bet you don't know how to get out of he rain ! Take a deep breath from your love fest of your "boys" for a second. Take a look @ the Youtube video of KS measuring nock travel with a laser.

#1 notice on KS wrist is a release aide as he papers the over spined arrow thru paper.

#2 Now notice KS slips the release aide off to conduct the laser nock travel test. He draws the bow with fingers. In fact, I BET MONEY he draws this bow from PRACTICING how much flex on his fingers he needs to apply to BELOW the D loop with his fingers to take up that HUMP.

#3,,,,you got sold ! The hand is faster than the eye if you are not looking hard. I knew the guy was trying to sell some saddle soap and WATCHED what he did,,,,,he manipulated the nock travel by drawing the bow with his fingers,not his release aide.

# 4 would you today ADMIT YOU MISSED that or would you still stand that this was a 100% integrity doing by KS ?

Watch this video on nock travel. First using a release, and then slipping it off. It's comical how sheeple can get conned and won't admit it.

You've been PUNKED and don't know it son.

 
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