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Discussion Starter #1
AS it appears to be,an award to the 2 track was awarded. My question to table in discussions is what would be the logistics,now being the 2 track cam is awarded,to allow the simple sale of 2 track cams,with proper agreements ofcourse to the patent holder and satisfying the licsenee ?

Would it not work legally to have someone simply make a 2 track cam for market that would be a retro fit for the many bows that are in need of such a cam ?

We see there will be payouts to shooters who are using this "cam system",,,,not payouts to people using a certain "bow",,,but a certain cam system. Therefore,if it is the "cam system" that is being awarded,and essentially "promoted",,,why shouldn't there be these cams available ala carte to be used on whatever bow ?

Say I like the grip on a PSE but want to get in the award monies for 2 tracks,why could I NOT buy a set of these cams to re-rig my bow inorder to make it qualify ?

Since 14 companies are supposedely not using the cams properly ,,,why not sell the cams individually so people COULD themselves make their bows "legal" ?

I'm really waiting for the 1 individual who has these patents to cams and simply says,I will license the cams to bow companies,but also I will make readily available for individual sale various sets of these cams in varying degrees of performance for people who want to buy them.

When you sell the cam alone,,,there is no patent or license suing needed,,,,they just are put on whatever bow they please,,,and maybe even can be bought on a whole bow as well.

there has to be 1 archer out there today that is in this NOT for just the money,,,,,but for the money and some goodwill. The guy who does this,,,will I say gather a larger marketshare of these types of cams/bows. the guys who are trying to control the market to their beck and call,will fall by the wayside because of percieved greed.

what's ya'lls take on this ? Wouldn't it speak huge volumes for the man who holds the cards to make his product available readily ?
 

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AS it appears to be,an award to the 2 track was awarded. My question to table in discussions is what would be the logistics,now being the 2 track cam is awarded,to allow the simple sale of 2 track cams,with proper agreements ofcourse to the patent holder and satisfying the licsenee ?

Would it not work legally to have someone simply make a 2 track cam for market that would be a retro fit for the many bows that are in need of such a cam ?

We see there will be payouts to shooters who are using this "cam system",,,,not payouts to people using a certain "bow",,,but a certain cam system. Therefore,if it is the "cam system" that is being awarded,and essentially "promoted",,,why shouldn't there be these cams available ala carte to be used on whatever bow ?

Say I like the grip on a PSE but want to get in the award monies for 2 tracks,why could I NOT buy a set of these cams to re-rig my bow inorder to make it qualify ?

Since 14 companies are supposedely not using the cams properly ,,,why not sell the cams individually so people COULD themselves make their bows "legal" ?

I'm really waiting for the 1 individual who has these patents to cams and simply says,I will license the cams to bow companies,but also I will make readily available for individual sale various sets of these cams in varying degrees of performance for people who want to buy them.

When you sell the cam alone,,,there is no patent or license suing needed,,,,they just are put on whatever bow they please,,,and maybe even can be bought on a whole bow as well.

there has to be 1 archer out there today that is in this NOT for just the money,,,,,but for the money and some goodwill. The guy who does this,,,will I say gather a larger marketshare of these types of cams/bows. the guys who are trying to control the market to their beck and call,will fall by the wayside because of percieved greed.

what's ya'lls take on this ? Wouldn't it speak huge volumes for the man who holds the cards to make his product available readily ?
The 2 track pays program is a way to help promote the bows companies that are properly licensed so they get something back for there investment. The ones that don't sign up will not be able to use it any way, but as far as cam sales only you never know what might come about for the frank-en bowers.
 

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If you are selling to the general public though, why would the bow companys pay to use the patent?

What stops me from buying the cheapest bow my company has to offer and buy the cams I want for it? Or an older used bow for dirt cheap and put the latest/greatest cam design on it?

Lots of possibilities could happen, but the small companies that many of us enjoy the offerings from would likely be out of business very quickly.
 

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The 2 track pays program is a way to help promote the bows companies that are properly licensed so they get something back for there investment. The ones that don't sign up will not be able to use it any way, but as far as cam sales only you never know what might come about for the frank-en bowers.
Is there something on the horizon??????
 

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Discussion Starter #6
The 2 track pays program is a way to help promote the bows companies that are properly licensed so they get something back for there investment. The ones that don't sign up will not be able to use it any way, but as far as cam sales only you never know what might come about for the frank-en bowers.


I do not happen to be "one" that is in need of a "retro" type fix or at the moment Frank-en anything.

I do feel for the what could be 1,000 bows out there that can use a "fix".

I do however think from a business standpoint that availing 2 track cams ala carte to the public would eventually attrack more people to buy bows with those configurations.

As far as what was posted concerning cams being slapped on cheap risers,,, u will get what you get number 1. #2 I don't say sell 2 track cams that are those super elite speed cams. I simply say avail a option so as to "experience" the 2 cam feel.

Kudos to those bow company's that properly paid rights. Yet there are people who might just want to see what this 2 track is all about. The availability of a set of cams to slap on their now enables them to test and see and might lead to buying the whole bow next purchase.

Sort of like fishing with a lure. Let em get to chase it, then if they like it,,, they'll bite !!

I hope for the betterment of archery something gets done quick because I have not seen such debacles in archery today since Oregon Bows stiffed a lot of people out of warranty work and went BK.

Archery could use a little boost from someone right now. Hope it's you Richard.
 

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I do not happen to be "one" that is in need of a "retro" type fix or at the moment Frank-en anything.

I do feel for the what could be 1,000 bows out there that can use a "fix".

I do however think from a business standpoint that availing 2 track cams ala carte to the public would eventually attrack more people to buy bows with those configurations.

As far as what was posted concerning cams being slapped on cheap risers,,, u will get what you get number 1. #2 I don't say sell 2 track cams that are those super elite speed cams. I simply say avail a option so as to "experience" the 2 cam feel.

Kudos to those bow company's that properly paid rights. Yet there are people who might just want to see what this 2 track is all about. The availability of a set of cams to slap on their now enables them to test and see and might lead to buying the whole bow next purchase.

Sort of like fishing with a lure. Let em get to chase it, then if they like it,,, they'll bite !!

I hope for the betterment of archery something gets done quick because I have not seen such debacles in archery today since Oregon Bows stiffed a lot of people out of warranty work and went BK.

Archery could use a little boost from someone right now. Hope it's you Richard.
I agree with most of what you are saying John. Accept I think the number is closer to 100 than a 1000.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I agree with most of what you are saying John. Accept I think the number is closer to 100 than a 1000.

wasn't the original K bows a 1000 and 1500 production run ?? Asuming MOST got sold or a good majority did. But like you said,,,who knows ? Bottomline is there are fellow archers in need and even @ 100 sets of cams,,,thats a big chunk of money as well as alot of potential customers that can be won over 1 bit at a time instead of being bowled over by a whole bow. People do still honor loyalty. Heck loyalty is one reason we see fan boys left and right. Fan boys basically are loyalists to one brand. Every company needs them,,,whether it is Ford,Chevy dodge or Mathews,Hoyt,PSE,Bowtech or Kevin Strother fans. It's all basically a matter of loyalty. Loyalty is what keeps a company going in thin tough times. In my honest observation in business.

I think this would be a win win situation to grab a series of customers into the fold.
 

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400 bows between the 2 max where probably sold. I'm guess he didn't have one made till money was in his hand.
 

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400 bows between the 2 max where probably sold. I'm guess he didn't have one made till money was in his hand.
Do you know this or is it a guess?
 

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Do you know this or is it a guess?
It's a guess only... Probably only 2 people know exactly how many, but this is a pretty reasonable/close guess based on available info posted here and elsewhere...
 

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Ok, given there are so few people with issues. Why not spend a single production run fixing them? The legal language would be super easy. I know you guys have mentioned that the hurdle is Rex not giving Dennis permission due to Kevin's douchbaggery. Who's in charge of "negotiating" with Rex? Fact is he'd be making tons of new fans, a few bucks, and a 100 or so guys really happy. I just don't get it. Assuming Dennis is in favor of helping out as many here profess over and over.

Again, who's in charge of talking to Rex?
 

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Ok, given there are so few people with issues. Why not spend a single production run fixing them? The legal language would be super easy. I know you guys have mentioned that the hurdle is Rex not giving Dennis permission due to Kevin's douchbaggery. Who's in charge of "negotiating" with Rex? Fact is he'd be making tons of new fans, a few bucks, and a 100 or so guys really happy. I just don't get it. Assuming Dennis is in favor of helping out as many here profess over and over.

Again, who's in charge of talking to Rex?

Each individual licensee is responsible for talking to Rex about their license terms.
 

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Thats still not going to get your money back charlie, and I dont see where another company is going to make any money from producing a cam for a few bows. I rememeber seeing a post about those fancy idler wheels. Somebody could get them made, but in order for them to make any money, they had to make 150 of them. Most guys already lost $200 on cams they didnt get, I dont see alot of the same guys dropping more money on something that worthless.

Unless you didnt loose on the Retro deal, or have $$ to burn.

No money in it.
 

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I got my money back. I just want some pretty cams. To say I shouldn't make this about Dennis seems odd. I was under the impression he's up for helping us out. Is that not the case? Everything you guys say says he wants to. Just seems so simple to me.
 

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Yes Dennis wants to help......but so far has been unsuccessful to this point. There is another designer that has made a suggestion but I need to get more information first.
 
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